Kav:

I read your excellent message very quickly, and will post a very brief reply (because it is getting late):

• as you suggest, Deception and Dishonesty are the real problems . . . in my view, it is OK for a seller to admit that he has put together a watch or for a collector to buy a put-together watch . . . usually, they can both be happy only if they are fully informed
• Sharing Accurate Information through this board is the best solution for Heuer enthusiasts . . . whether you like the Frankens or hate them, you deserve to know which is made by Heuer and which is made by someone else . . . then the buyer / bidder can decide whether he wants to own it
• If a seller knows that it is a franken / fake / broken / whatever, and omits this information from a description, and chooses to hide behind the words "as is", in my opinion, this seller has omitted important information, and ethically, if not legally, this is fraud / deception / bad and people should know about this seller's way of operating.
  

Sorry about all the RED, but the "Font Color" tag can be habit forming!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

: Hello,
: (this is long, sit comfortably, make a coffee,
: open a beer or put a glass of wine,
: depending on the time you read it)

: I have done my share of bashing on
: "Frankenwatches" and their
: sellers, like most of us in this forum. Now
: let me share another point of view.

: First of all, let's try to judge the intrinsic
: value of a Frankenwatch and then talk about
: the trade of such watches.

: For a moment forget the market, forget buying
: and selling. What constitutes the intrinsic
: value of a watch? Is it the sum of the
: production cost of its parts? Is the value
: related to its rarity? To its beauty? To its
: authenticy? To its sentimental baggage? To
: its brand? Is it related to nothing from the
: above? To all of the above? The more I think
: about it, the more I tend to believe that
: the "true" value of a watch has
: many similarities with quantum theory: The
: observer is of paramount importance. He
: decides. No absolutes. Maybe not only
: beauty, but even intrinsic value " is
: in the eye of the beholder ".

: People spend money to change parts of their
: cars and void manufacturers guarantee,
: because they prefer it that way (it is not
: always the case of improving performance).
: Are these Frankencars? Probably. Are they
: willingly hurting the value of their cars?
: Probably not. TO THEM their
: "Frankencar" is more valuable than
: the original car. Hardcore Panerai (and
: other brands) collectors are sending their
: newly purchased watches to PVD firms for a
: black finish. I'm guilty of liking the
: "frankenbezel" of the pictured
: Autavia more than the original bezel.

: So, at least for me a frankenwatch is not by
: definition a lower value watch. I like to
: look at them on a case by case basis. This
: kind of thinking is shared by some
: collectors who (like Jeff has already
: pointed out) spend good money on
: franken/fake oversized Heuer chronographs,
: knowing exactly what they are and what they
: are not. Of course for the typical collector
: who likes his watches to be like they were
: designed to be, a frankenwatch is of very
: low value.

: Now let's go to the marketplace. How ethical is
: it to sell frankenwatches? Nah, let's leave
: ethics out of it, let's simplify it. How
: "bad" is it to sell
: frankenwatches? I don't thing it is a bad
: thing to sell them. What I thing is bad is
: MISLEADING buyers. If you knowingly tell a
: lie to the buyer you are misleading him. But
: there is still a lot of gray area.

: There are many vintage watch sellers sell their
: watches as "AS IS" and they shout
: "as questions first". They are
: telling you in a way: "here's the
: watch, here are a few facts about it, what
: you see is what you get, no more no
: less." What if they don't mention
: something they know but the buyer hasn't
: asked about? What if they really don't know
: that they are selling a frankenwatch?

: If someone is casually looking for a watch and
: happen to like a frankenwatch, I don't see
: why he should not buy it. Should he know
: that it has been "put together"?
: Does he really care?

: I'm not taking any sides here. I have no reason
: to defend any frankenwatch sellers. I'm just
: asking questions. Questions that have risen
: from the situation I'm in right now.
: Sometime ago, I have bought a
: "frankenwatch". The watch had the
: wrong bezel. Now I plan to change its bezel
: and although I can put the right bezel I
: plan to put a different bezel I like more...
: Can anyone please help me on how to change
: the bezel on my 11630 Autavia? (such a long
: post just to ask a silly question ;-)

: .
: .
: .
: .

: (this is NOT my watch, but another frankenbezel
: Autavia I like)