zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

OK. My view Posted By: SteveW62 <Steve_Waddington@yahoo.com>
Date: 3/30/06 15:59 GMT In Response To: Pre-emptive post... I can't state, only opine... (Chicagoland Chuck Maddox)

Hi Chuck, Hi Georges, Hi anyone else bored enough to read this.

I don't want to go through each of the replies line by line, but here's my view.

Georges STATED , in a way that read as a fact, that the 3612 has NOT been tested under rough conditions.

Georges did state that.

I asked where the facts came from.

You did.

Basically Chuck & Georges have replied that the 33xx movements have had problems ( there is no doubting that !).

The c.33xx have had problems, there is no doubting that, however, it doesn't stop people from trying to deny or ignore them.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but why does that mean that the 3612 movement will also have problems ?

Predictive? It doesn't mean that they will experience problems, however, it remains at least possible, and perhaps even probable that some might.

I said the c.33xx have had problems, they have, and the c.3612 which share a common heritage with the previous c.33xx will have to overcome the baggage generated by it's predecessors...

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the 33xx first came onto the market. Omega claim they have found & fixed the 33xx problems. They say new movements don't have these problems.

However, we continue to see new problems reported, not only with c.3303's, c,3301's but also c.3313's... The c.3313's in particular... I know of three Co-Axial DeVille owners over at TZOF... Keith Downing, his wife Marnee and one other fellow who's name eludes my memory at the moment. Perhaps there are more. However, Keith's example and the one the other fellow's example needed to be sent back to Bienne for remedial work after they suffered the same malady/maladies that were first identified by Shaun Thornton back in 2003.

Now these are c.3313's, new models who's introduction post-date's the "fixes" that Omega could be applying to all F.Piguet movements that they ship out into the dealer channels.

Omega says and claims many things. They claim they have found and fixed the problems. How can that be when newer models are being sent back to Bienne for repairs with the same maladies? Omega also claim these new movements don't have the problems. Again, how can that be if people are reporting issues with them that sound identical to those identifed in the note by Shaun Thorton?

It's not so much I doubt what Omega's saying, but rather what Omega is saying doesn't jive with what is being reported by owners.

Maybe they've checked the 3612's better before they left the factory ?

I would hope so!

Maybe they engineered them better from the begining ?

I would hope that too!

Omega have had "some egg on their face" because ofthe 33xx movements.

Some?

I hope they have got their act together for the next range of movements.

I do too.

Georges also mentioned meeting the head of the museum in 2004.

Ok, here is Georges post:

more precisions Posted By: georges zaslavsky Date: 3/30/06 13:55 GMT In Response To: Georges may I ask you a question. (SteveW62)

Hi

When I met Marco Richon in 2004 (for a special occasion when Omega's staff was in Omega Paris Flagshipstore for a special moonwatch exhibition) who was wearing the prototype of the 33xx there was Daniel Anselmi who was there and he was wearing the prototype of the Deville Coaxial Rattrapante with the 36xx. I asked to both what are the tests done to the new movements chronograph and non chronograph movements included? They answered, shock tests, antimatignetic tests, the start, frequent stop and reset tests done with chronographs otherwise they said the tests are the same tests that the 1120 and coaxial series of movements pass. I also asked at that time if the movement could be considered as robust as the 321 or 861 series of movements but they never answered to this question.

Interesting, that they didn't answer that query...

I also have other feedback from a friend of my uncle who worked at le Brassus at Frederic Piguet on the 1186 when it was introduced on Blanpains years ago. He said me that the movement is a work of art but it is not a movement intended for rough activities.

Which jives with comments I have read on my own journeys...

The 3612 series of movement is completely different from the 1186 in terms of height and diameter, it is has a larger height and a larger diameter than the 1186 but otherwise it is based on the frederic piguet 1286 edition speciale de luxe.

Here I disagree... The beat rate is also different, the subdial layout is different. I will agree to the phrasing that perhaps the 1185, 1186 or 1286 was the "jumping off point" for the c.33xx's, but I can not agree with any statements that the c.33xx is based on these movements, unless some new information that establishes that fact is presented.

See the numerous problems that occured with the 33xx (more especially in the USA, tough I rarely if not never heard of 33XX problems in Europe)

This may be due to the predominient nature of TZ's clientele, which I would suspect is plurality (if not majority) North American and mainly Yank's and Canadians...

and please don't tell me it is a very reliable and very rugged movement because it is not the case. The 321, 861, 1040 and 1045 are rugged and fully proven movements.

Up to the present day, none of the c.33xx have shown that they are in the same league when it comes to reliability especially under rough use. In fact, one of the more (if not most) common reasons Omega cites for the problems they repair is "shock damage". We don't hear that cause cited with the other movement's Georges mentions.

Yes Omega made an exceptional movement in terms of finish and complications.

Piguet you mean, and also an exceptional movement in terms of new methods of operating...

But I certainly doubt about this movement durability and ruggedness, knowing the various problems that happened with the 33xx and I am not sure that Omega solved the 33xx problems from a definitive manner.

I too have those same doubts.

On the opposite,Rolex did solve its 4130 problems from an efficient manner so that they never appeared anymore.

I have not heard of a single complaint of the new Daytona movement after 2002. We can search the archives at TZ Rolex if we wish to, to confirm.

I am sure you know about Chuck's watchblog, I am sure you read about the very numerous case of 33xx problems. I am not saying that the movement is bad but I don't think this movement is made for rough activities unlike the calibers I quoted before.

And I am sure that someone will hasten to add that I haven't documented the c.33xx's successes. I haven't. Those successes should be expected, at least I think they should be.

Just my opinions and all what I know on this touchy movement subject.

regards and have a nice day

georges

With all respect, why should the head of a museum know all the ins & outs of the latest prototype testing ?

I'm not certain he should, and I don't know the title or duties of this Daniel Anselmi fellow either. Perhaps he is more involved in the production and or Quality Control side of things.

& bear in mind this meeting was 2 years ago now. Again a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then.

And I will be the first to admit the problems being reported lately do seem to be accuring at a lower rate previous to this last year or so. But problems still are being reported.

Just because he didn't answer a question, doesn't mean Omega has anything to hide.

It means they didn't answer a direct question.

I find it amazing that less than 24 hrs after a post anouncing the release of a watch, I read the line The 3612 has not been tested under rough conditions..... [This is from Georges Post]

I can't speak for Georges choice of words/phrasing, however I don't believe any of us can speak to that point. Over in TZ OF we only just had the first two reports from owners of the DeVille Rattrapante (well, we had claims by two, but only pictures from one, but that's a long story)...

It doesn't read like a supposition, theory or guess to me.

Me neither.

I have no idea if the 3612 will be any good or not, but I'm sure not going to write it off before one has ever reached the public.

Nor I, however the 3612 has reached the public and it will be interesting to see.

just my 2 cents.

And my 2¢ still isn't enough for a cup of coffee...

S.

-- Chuck