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Re: What do you think about this??? PICS


The original poster is struggling to accept that we think this one is fake, so I've done a detailed dissection of it. I thought it might be worth reposting here as it gives an idea of some of the elements to consider when assessing a watch.

It's also worth going through OTD and getting a feel for each of the models of watch there - you don't need Rainman levels of recall for all the details but an idea of the similarities and differences is going to come in handy. Arno's book is very good for showing close ups of some of the details too. I'm always happy to answer buying, selling and restoration questions on Carreras, but there are always those times when you're face to face with a watch at a watch fair/flea market/boot sale and an informed gut feel is better than the plain old instinctual version!

Hope it helps at least someone a bit.

We're not providing evidence that the watch is not genuine? It's more difficult to do than prove a watch is straight, considering we have to provide evidence that something is missing rather than that it is present. But hey, I like a challenge so here goes.

Consider that not every element is designed anew for every watch. It makes commercial sense to reuse elements such as hands and markers where it makes sense to, especially on lower volume watches. Look at the Heuer Skipper as an example. The first model is basically a 60s Carrera with a bespoke dial - subsequent models are 70s Autavias with "Skipper" dials:

With that in mind, let's dissect the watch in question and see if any of the elements are used in other Heuers of the period.

CASE: This case wasn't used on other Heuer models, though other manufacturers used similar ones. The brushed top and satin polished sides are similar to some Heuer watches but many other manufacturers also used such contrasting finishes.

CROWN: An easily replaced item so hardly definitive, but we can't see much of it. Is it signed? Is the tube diameter the same as some of the other Heuers of the period?

PUSHERS: Fairly generic round ones. Heuer had reverted to round (rather than fluted) pushers by the late 70s (which I guess is when we are pitching this watch?) but then just about everyone else was too.

HANDS: Those look like generic movement manufacturer supplied hands. When Heuer used similar such hands (Carrera 5100, Monza, 1000 PVDs for example) they always had pointed ends rather than the squared off ends these have.

REGISTERS: Heuer used this shape of registers precisely once, on the Temporada:

Even then, the internal markings are very different and the windows around the registers are not a feature of the Temporada. In fact, none of the known and documented Heuers have these windows.

Other manufacturers however use them quite often. Many of the generic unbranded dials for sale on sites like eBay have this shape of register.

TACHY SCALE: A number of Heuers also have a tachy scale. However, when it is just a tachy scale (and not combined with other scales as an on the Montreal and Monza), they use the wording "Tachy" rather than the full "Tachymetre" on this watch. The 1000 series watches are an exception:

But the tachy scale here doesn't match any of those on the 1000 series watches.

DATE WHEEL: Heuers with date wheels overwhelmingly use black on white date wheels. The only confirmed use of red dates is on the first execution of the Carrera Dato 45 in 1966.

24 HOUR SCALE: The only times I am aware of Heuer using 24 hour scales are on the external bezels of Autavia GMTs:

Unlike some manufacturers such as Breitling, they stopped using multiple scales on a watch around the 40s, apart from a few exceptions like the triple calendars. Where there were multiple scales, they were combined on a single ring as on the aforementioned Montreal and Monza:

DIAL WORDING: Unlike some manufacturers, Heuer very rarely put the word "Incabloc" on the dial. They did this with a couple of French made economy chronos at the end of the 70s, but those had either "Made in France" or "Ebauches Suisses" at the bottom of their dials.

Heuer did put "Chronograph" on its dials during the 70s but only on the automatics and always written as "Automatic Chronograph" in the English spelling rather than the French with the "e". Manual watches simply omit the text altogether.

CASEBACK: A similar looking back to some Heuers, although many casebacks look similar anyway. The wording on this one differs from contemporary Heuer casebacks:

Again, these don't mention the shock protection mechanism used (Incabloc). In this period, Heuer were also putting the watch reference number and often the serial number on the caseback too. This watch has a reference of 905, which doesn't appear in Heuer pricelists or catalogues of the period.

SERIAL NUMBER: Let's get back to the subject of serial numbers. The serial number for the watch doesn't appear to be on the caseback - the other location for Heuers is between the lugs. Can you provide us with its serial number? We know the range of serial numbers Heuer was using during this period, so we can check that it fits within the range (only the French made watches use a different serial numbering system so it is easy to do a logic check on a watch to make sure it fits in).

MOVEMENT: Can you provide pictures of the movement? With very few exceptions, the bridge will be Heuer signed and we are familiar with the styles of engraving used. It's easy enough to check this against Heuers of proven provenance.

HEUER LITERATURE: As mentioned above, the watch doesn't appear in any of the Heuer literature we have for the period. And we have quite a lot for the whole of the 70s and early 80s.

Anything else for anyone to add? This is more effort than I wanted to put in for this watch to be honest, but I wanted to show we weren't just dismissing it out of hand. Every new watch we see purporting to be a Heuer gets these questions asked about it and to accept it, we would want to see at least a majority of these pointing towards it being a Heuer. Which hopefully clearly isn't the case with this watch.

And that's enough from me on the subject, I'm off to watch Liverpool on TV!

I started to write an article dissecting a redial in much more detail than this at the end of last year - I might try and finish that off too, as it could well prove helpful too. We'll see.

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